Monday, March 9, 2015

Fahrenheit 451 fishbowl #4: fifth hour

Last Fahrenheit fishbowl!  Let's make it a great one.

Much, much better last time!  Many very quality, well-supported comments.  Here are a few highlights:

Noah asked, "Montag likes to comment on his hand like they have a mind of their own like on page 102 when it says,'Montag felt the guilt of his hands' why do you think that is?

Also, Marissa commented, "I think books were mostly banned to censor the information that makes the government look bad. Also, the stuff we see as violence is seen as entertainment to them, like when the bodies flew across the screen and Millie was not bothered by it. 'Millie, did you see that?''I saw it, I saw it!' pg 90

And Liam stated, "Early on in part two Faber describes books importance saying that 'they have quality. And what does the word quality mean? To me it means texture.' By this I think Faber means that unlike most things they have in this society, books have personality and creativity unmatched in the modern world.

I picked these as they each contextualized their questions or supported their comments with a passage from the text.  Please do that for every post.

Let's aim for at least 5 good quality comments or questions today.

Happy posting!


60 comments:

  1. I believe beatty did read the books at one point, how else could he know all of those quotes? My thinking on it is whether he felt ashamed or not about it and that may be why he wanted to die?

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    1. well this is a little further back in the book but on page 52-56 Beatty is taking about the past, stuff that no one else knew. I believe that he lived before the banning of books, he seems to know the history enough.

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  2. On page 111, Beatty says that "'[Mildred's] friends turned in an alarm’” Would a true friend do that? Does this society understand friendship and love?

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    1. I think that since they were Mildred's friends they did not think that they had to protect him as a friend. Also their reaction to Montag reading the books was one of shock and fear and I think that that would have convinced them to turn in an alarm.

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    2. I do not think that this society understands love or relationships, like when mrs.phelps talks about her husband on page 90 and how she would not cry if he died. It seems as though the relationships are not genuine but aranged.

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    3. I think that Montag was considered their friend only Mildred. Also like Marlo said, they do not understand relationships so they did not think of how this could affect Mildred or Montag, only just thinking of themselves.

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  3. I agree with Marissa. I think that he was much more advantageous being the chief. I just don't think that he was as interested in the books as Montag was

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  4. I don't think Beatty was o.k. with dying because he seemed happy with his life and he was in a high position in this society.

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  5. Is there any way Beatty could have told Montag earlier that he wanted to die because when Montag says "In the middle of the crying Montag knew it for the truth. Beatty had wanted to die." (pg. 116) Montag acts like he is 100 % confident that Beatty wanted to die and he knew that?

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  6. I think Montag was not attracted to Clarisse but he felt something because of her intelligence. He just felt something different and it was interesting to him.

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    1. I agree with you because I think her intelligence amused Montag into a sense where he had no choice but to seem like he was attracted to her on the outside but on the inside he really didn't like her.

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  7. On page 130 Montag says while pouring whisky on his belongings "I don't want the Hound picking up two odors at once." It makes it seem like he is changing like he is not going to change and admit that he is wrong, like the lady in the house he is willing to run and maybe die in order to fallow what he believes in. Do you think this makes Montag brave or incompetent?

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    1. I don't think Montag is being brave. He has changed a lot over the course of the book, so I believe it is him being incompetent. He's not being a coward or running away. In a way he's giving up - letting Faber or someone else fight for books.

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    2. I do not think that makes Montag brave because, he is still running away. He is afraid of going to jail and getting caught more than still believing in his plan that he made earlier with Faber.

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    3. I think this makes him brave because it takes a lot of guts to stand up against something you don't believe in especially when your opponent is a deadly force who is trying to kill you by sending a mechanical hound after him (pg 126) and the fact that he hasn't backed down then makes him brave.

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  8. Do you think the Mechanical Hound is a metaphor for society hunting down individuals and intellectuals? Especially when the news announces " the Mechanical Hound never fails" (pg 126)

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    1. I think it could be a metaphor, or something to represent the government. The Mechanical Hound is what they are fighting against... Not sure how to say what I'm thinking, but I tried.

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    2. I don't know if Bradbury originally intended it like this, but I like the way you perceived it

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    3. The Mechanical Hound represents how technology is dangerous in Montag's society. Bradbury used a fake dog instead of a real one to show how unnatural technology can be. A dog is not supposed to be "Copper wire, storage batteries, and electricity." page 24

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    4. I do think that the dog was a metaphor, at the time this book was written, the government was censoring books and punishing those who had independent thoughts. So in a way the Mechanical dog is like the government. Which is kind of cynical.

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  9. Why does Montag describe the TV channel about him a strange pleasure? Why would this pleasure him?

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    1. I think this is because Montag and all other people are seen as such a group and no one is treated special or as an individual so Montag is happy that he is getting attention and being separated from the group. Since montag thinks "Thats all for me, You thought, That's all just for me." (pg 127) so even though he is getting attention for bad reasons but Montag is just happy to be recognized as a person by society.

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  10. Going on Taylors question, I think its interesting that everyone was listening to the same radio/tv station at the same time.

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    1. Are there any other radio/tv stations to listen to?

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  11. What do you think will be the reactions of people when they see that the cops have not caught Montag, and how could that change their perception on breaking the rules if they can't catch you? pg 133

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    1. No. They are banning books because of the ideas in them not because they are against reading. They still know how to read just not books.

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  13. I agree with Montag in his decision to kill Beatty. Montag was protecting his friend, Faber, and Beatty threatened Montag’s only friendship. Having true friendship in this society is worth having to kill for. Beatty also wanted to die; It may not have been ethical on Montag’s side, but Beatty acted as if he did not enjoy his life, so there was no reason for Beatty to stay alive. There is also justification in Montag’s actions through this society. Naturally, everyone is violent from the shows they watch. It is common for people to murder and destroy lives, and they don’t grieve because they do not have funerals. No one will miss Beatty. No one will necessarily care. The people might pay attention when the story is on the television for an hour, but then they will forget Beatty’s existence shortly after. Montag killed because he knew it would not impact or hurt others, and I think that is enough justification to kill Beatty.

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    1. I also think that he did not have many other options in that circumstance, and his own life could have been in danger.

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  14. I said the same thing in my documents. And agree with Taylor, it is incredible how much the government own the people to command them all to do something in just 10 seconds.

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  15. Going off of Taylor's comment, maybe the government has somewhat brainwashed the people of the society so that they can have a tighter grip on their people in the society, and that is why they all opened up the door at the same time, even if people are scared, they wouldn't open their doors at the exact same time

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    1. I could definitely see that. Especially with examples of the television and Millie. She would never take her eyes off of it and felt as if it was family

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  16. He may care about Mildred but she was too into the society for his liking toward the end of the book. She got scared like the rest of the people, and in turn told the people who have always kept her "safe".

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    1. I think Mildred just ran before she could get hurt or in trouble. She never cared about him, she just liked the fact that he could buy her the TV's or her "family"

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    2. Mildred was very selfish the whole book and defiantly turned him in to protect herself.

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  17. When the town is told to open their windows and doors at the same time do you think the whole society actually did that because that is what they were told and they are so used to being controlled or did some people rebel and not want to be apart of the search? (pg. 131) "Police suggest entire population in the Elm Terrace area do as follows: Everyone in every house in every street open a front or rear door..."

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    1. I think to some extent the people had no reason not to.

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    2. I think that the society that they live in is one where they don't have something better to do. They are all bored and don't want to rebel so its kind of a "why not" situation. I don't think some people didn't open their windows because even Faber who doesn't agree with there society is afraid to go against it.

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    3. Most likely everyone opened their doors and windows. The regular citizens were probably thrilled to do what the police told them. For them, it would be fun to interact in the hunt, and be a part of the action. The rebels, though, would not take as much pride in opening their doors. They might have a sour attitude, but they would anyways to not seem suspicious.

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  18. One of the men at the fire said, "your welcome here." to Montag so they must be like him, people who can read. I think since Clarisse is such an important person she might be in this group of people, and she is also like Montag right now, who is curious about books and the earlier world.

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  19. The people of this society seem so numbed to things like the death of Clarisse. Like Katie said, they don't grieve over death the same way we do, which seems very very odd to us

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    1. I think that is the goal of this society.

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  20. On page 124 Montag says "There's Beatty dead, and he was my friend once, and there's Millie gone, I thought she was my wife, but now I don't know." Is this the moment when Montag realizes that everything that he thought made him happy in his life was fake? Why was it worth it for Montag to give up all of this to save the books and change society?

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  21. If Clarisse didn't die what do you think she's doing right now, is she with her family or do you think she's alone?

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  22. On page 122 Montag was question who had killed Charisse, do you think that she was killed for her books and how did Mildred find out that she was dead before Montag did?

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  23. Jess, that is a point I also brought up in my documents. It is amazing to see how much the government has gotten into his head to the point that he has to check if a river is actually there and not fake like everything else.

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  24. I agree, that Montag probably just told himself that Beatty wanted to die because he didn't think about what he did in that moment and he was just trying to make himself feel better about the whole situation

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    1. I agree, I think it made it easy for Montag to think Beatty wanted to die, it made it easy to kill him

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  25. What would you do if we lived in a society like this? Would you rebel, or be happy that your wall is a tv? ha Would you miss books? Wish you read them now when we have them... Does this change your opinion on books and reading them?

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    1. For awhile I think I would enjoy the society and the television. You would always have something in common with your neighbor and something to talk about. (you would watch the same shows) But after awhile I might get curious. Why are books banned? Why can't we read them? And I would get bored. Always talking about the same thing can be annoying.

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  26. In response to Marissa's question, I don't think that Montag ever regretted meeting Clarisse, he wanted to make a difference and everything he did was his own choice, it was just Clarisse that helped spark that in him

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  27. I don't think Montag regrets meeting her. He obviously really liked her and liked talking and spending time with her. Like Taylor said she kind of shaped him and made him think the way he is in the book currently. I don't think Clarrise will ever come back, but I don't really think she ever left because Montag has taken her position and is fighting for what she would want to fight for as well.

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  28. In reply to Marissa: I do not think that Montag regrets meeting Charisse, like he says on page 122 "' I wonder if they were the ones who killed Charisse!"' he wanted to run after them yelling" I think that she opened his eyes and he was upset by her death otherwise he would not be angry with those who he believed killed her.

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  29. Why do you think Faber is so willing to lay down his life for Montag, when he says "About what? me, my house, I deserve everything. Run, For gods sake, Perhaps I can delay them here-" (pg 129)

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  30. I don't think Montage regrets everything he's done I think he just wants to make up for those "mistakes" he's made in the past by "fixing" the government.

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  31. I think Montag thought that if the society saw that fireman were reading, then maybe books weren't so bad after all.

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  32. Yeah I do wonder what the firefighters will do without their leaders. They seem helpless without him, the moment he was gone they all froze like robots and just waited to be knocked out.

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  33. I think Montag wants to get caught. He wants to show people that when you stand up for what you believe in you get punished and how that needs to change. Montag was even saying when he left Faber's house he was thinking of one last word to sum up everything he believed in. To bring to the light that the society needs to change

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