Wednesday, March 4, 2015

Fahrenheit 451 fishbowl #3: first hour

Morning!  Looking forward to a great fishbowl over part 2 of Fahrenheit.  Remember, anything from this section is fair game:  comprehension questions, analysis questions, and big picture questions.

You guys are doing well with all of our expectations.  Some seem challenged, however, with the idea of incorporating passages into each response.  Remember, for each question & comment, I'm asking you to include & cite a passage from the text; aim for fewer, better responses.  Be sure, too, that the passage you include, in fact, supports your thinking, discussing its relevance to your argument.   Here are a few of your classmates who did a great job with that in our last discussion.  Please use their questions and comments as good examples.

Here is one of Becca's comments:  "It is mentioned that a quote Montag read was 'stamped with Fiery Steele' into his mind, and I think that it might show that fire is starting to hurt him, because reading that book was against everything he used to believe in very strongly [so] he basically betrayed himself. Maybe it is giving him an idea as to how much he is hurting other people". (Pg 34)

And Monica's "The way of life they live is part of who the people are. When Beatty is talking to Montag he said that people like Clarisse don't happen very often. "Luckily, queer ones like her don't happen often. We know how to nip most of them in the bud, early." (Bradbury 58)

And a great comment from Meghan: "I think that completely depends on what family you're born into because parents beliefs and lifestyles tend to pass on to their children. For example, on page 7 Clarice says "Oh, just my mother and father and uncle sitting around, talking." I think this shows that the reason Clarice thinks so much is because the rest of her family talks instead of being on technology.

Here's another great comment from Ben: "It seems as though Mildred and Montag fight a lot. I think that they will get divorced. Montag on page 53 says 'For God's sake, let me be!" If they don't get divorced then their marriage will be complicated.'"

57 comments:

  1. Why do you think that Mrs. Phelps thinks that kids are ruinous? pg. 92 "Caesareans or not, children are ruinous; you're out of your mind,"

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    1. The society that Mrs. Phelps grows up in is controlled by the leaders. Whatever they want them to do or think they put it on tv or have them listen to it. When they are talking about politics one of the ladies said "Even their names helped. Compare Winston Noble to Hubert Hoag for then seconds and you can almost figure the results." The society wants them to think certain ways and maybe they want them to think that kids are a burden.

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  2. On page 90 Mrs. Phelps says, "He'll be back next week. The army said so. Quick war. Forty-eight hours they said, and everyone home." What happens in a 48 hour war and what kind of fighting is there in such a quick period of time?

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    1. I think that its not even a war at all. Usually wars last like months or years, take the Afghanistan war we are still fighting all these years sense 9/11. I think maybe its more or less a discussion that can lead to violence until someone gives up and calls for a trues.

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    2. Nuclear warfare, "We've started and won two atomic wars since 2022!" (69) The world outside America's boarders is gone if this is the case, Japan is still struggling after the bombs dropped in the 1950s, The world may be gone outside the US in this dystopia. Weapons of mass destruction could have taken everything, maybe that's why life is so censored.

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  3. What kind of TV shows is Mildred watching? What Montag describes on the TV screen is a bit disturbing. "Montag saw a number of bodies fly in the air" (90).

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    1. I think there are few TV shows to watch in the first place, so I don't think she is choosing to watch it. I think the government is trying to make a point by making them watch these types of shows.

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  4. Why does montag question if Millie's "family" love her? (73)
    Why does she get so upset when he questions this?
    Why is this important?

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    1. Mildred is so obsessed with her "family" because she spends the most time listening to them. What if it's having a negative effect on her? Maybe the TV is what's "killing" her. Montag said "my wife is dying" (77).

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  5. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  6. In this society it seems as if having a child is practically meaningless, and the only point in having one is for the world to go on and reproduce, the quote that sparked my thinking is on page 92, "The world must reproduce, you know, the race must go on...". I didn't understand why they do this? And when did children become a burden?

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    1. I think you are pretty on track in thinking it is just to keep the race alive. On page 93 it says "...when they come home three days a month: it's not bad at all." If the kids are only home for three days a month then I don't think it really is because they want to have kids and start a family.

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  7. On page 106 there is a quote where Montag says "we've stopped in front of my house". Do you think that Beatty planned on burning Montag's house down the whole time he knew Montag had books?

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    1. I think so because on page 59 Beatty says "Well, Montag take my word for it, I've read a few books in my time" When he says rhat he's kind of implying if you're reading books don't do it anymore.

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    2. I think Beaty had the idea for a while and he probably knew that Montag was reading books because he started thinking differently. Also Beaty must have read books too to know how Montag would react to it. When they were playing cards Beaty kept quoting from books; "And you, quoting Dr. Johnson, said 'Knowlege is more than equivalent to force!'" It shows that Beaty knows more than he lets on to and that he probably was put their by the leaders to keep the fireman in check. He wants to teach the other firemen a lesson for having books in their houses.

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  8. To respond to Brooklyn when he asked "Why did Montag read to those women?" I would say that Montag was pretty much just fed up with how his society was turning out, Montag said, "Damn it! What do you know about Hoag and Noble!" (p93) I believe that Montag is starting to realize just how ignorant all these people really are.

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  9. In the book on page 93 it says. "They'd just as soon kick as kiss me. Thank God, I can kick back!". Is child abuse okay in this society, and why?

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    1. I think it is ok because if all the kids are "disciplined" then they will all act similar, which is the government's goal.

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    2. If you look back t 1950s culture "Disciplining children in the 1950s has often been regarded as strict, harsh and oppressive. In fact, children were often meant to be "seen but not heard."'

      http://www.ehow.com/info_8339974_disciplining-children-1950s.html

      It was okay to harshly punish your children, this idea of "strict" punishment was magnified in this dystopia.

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    3. I don't think that physically beating your child is okay even in this society, I believe that to discipline a child you need to take away things they love not make them associate everything they do with pain.

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  10. On page 81 it says, "the right to carry out actions based on what we learn from.." Its basically saying that people will be more motivated to do what the books say and I think that that's not necessarily true. For example, people think that playing violent video games will drive a person to do violent things but, I think more often then not, people will try to learn from these experiences rather than taking advantage from them. I'm curious as to, why do people think that bad things will motivate us to do other bad things?

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    1. I think that people say this because when you read about or see violence in something, you put yourself in that situation. At first you will react thinking that what you just saw is terrible but after seeing it multiple times it won't affect you at all. After having excessive thoughts or visualizations of violence, you can end up changing how you act and even how you think.

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  11. In response to Becca's question, I think that Mildred get really upset because she views the "parlor family" as her true family. "'Will you turn the parlor off?...and came back, 'Is that better?'" This shows Mildred cares more about the parlor than Montag.

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  12. To respond to Becca I believe that her "family" is the only thing that is important to her. I think she is always in need of electronics because there are countless quotes that say that she has her headphones in or she is sitting in the parlor watching the family.

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  13. On page 78, Faber tells Montag that he's a "hopeless romantic." What does this mean?

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    1. I think it means that Montag is looking for love when he's not in love with Mildred. Like when Clarice Rubs the dandelion under his chin and nothing rubs off meaning that he's not in love.

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  14. To Zachs question Do you think that Montag cares more about Mildred and the rest of society or books? I think that Montag is realizing that his life is better with boks and Mildred is not the right person for him anymore. "Youll ruin us! Whos more important, me or that bible?"

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    1. Well I don't think he really cared before books. On page 20 he says, "I am very much in love." I think he just thought that once you were married you were in love. He obviously trusted her because he showed her the books and wanted her to help him show people books but I don't think he cares much.

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    2. I think Montag cares more about the books. On page 20 he says, "I am very much in love." This quote shows that when Montag is questioned about his love he gets angry because he is starting to realize that maybe he isn't in love. I think that through out part 2 he starts to care more about his books than anything else.

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  15. To hunter, I do believe Betty tried burning Montag's house, because the assignment was to burn things and they just so happened to stop at his house.
    "At last Montag raised his eyes and turned."

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  16. To respond to Spencer I would have to totally agree about when he said "I believe that Montag loves his books more than his wife." I agree with this because Fabor said, "You'll ruin everything. Shut up you fool!" (p94). I believe that this shows that Montag is willing to risk everything just to read someone a piece of poetry from a book.

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  17. On page 96 Montag reads to the ladies that are at his house. Do you think that this action could have ruined the plan Montag and Faber's plan?

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    1. Yes I that one of the ladies will tell Beatty or the other firemen that Montag has a collection of books.

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    2. I don't think that this action will ruin the plan because of Mildred's cover up, "Ladies, once a year, every fireman's allowed to bring one book home, from the old days, to show his family how silly it all was, how nervous that kind of thing can make you, how crazy" (Bradbury 95). However, I do think that someone will turn Montag in eventually because Montag's not being careful enough and making these decisions to pull out books on the fly.

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  18. On page 104 Beatty says, "I like your look of panic.", is he a sadist, or a more toned down version of one?

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    1. I don't think he is sad, I just think he is confused. He was introduced to this concept of books and from this he is developing emotional connections to things and he's just not used to it. On page 79, Faber says, "You find life under the glass..." (in regard to books) and from this I think that Montag is just trying to find HIS meaning of life just how Mildred meaning is technology

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    2. What do you mean by "is he a sadist?" I don't understand what your trying to ask about Beatty and what he said.

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    3. I don't think he knows what's going on and is emotionless.

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  19. To respond to Trent when he asked "Why Montag should trust Faber?" I believe that he trusts Faber just because he feels like all people with books must stick together and he feels that he has really nothing to lose. Montag said "That's the good part of dying; when you've nothing to lose, you run any risk you want" (p81).

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  20. Do you think that Montag will change Mildred from how she is so drawn to TV's and then she will want to read books too? Pg. 95 "Mildred had already anticipated thus in a quavery voice. "Ladies, once a year, every fireman's allowed to bring one book home, from the old days, to show his family how silly it all was, ..., so none of us will ever have to bother our little old heads about that junk again, isn't that right, darling?"

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    1. I don't think Montag will ever be able to change Mildred's love for technology. On page 73 Montag asks if her family loves her and she responds "Why would you ask a silly question." I think that this quote shows that she is so controlled by TV that she thinks that the actors on the screen love her. I think this shows that she won't ever change her ways because she is to obsessed over TV.

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    2. I don't think that Montag could change Mildred because she loves the technology and she depends on it and it tells her everything she wants to know. The society tells them that reading books is banned. When Montag brings the book out to read they get scared and say, "That's not right, wailed Mrs. Bowles. "We can't do that!" (pg. 95) The ladies are so dependent on society telling them what they can and can't do so I don't think that Montag could change Mildred.

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    3. To respond to Maria, I don't think that Montag will be able to change Mildred's mind on how she is hooked to her television because Mildred asked, "Did you see that Clara Dove five-minute romance last night in your wall?" (91). This shows that Mildred is hooked to her wall and that is most of the time the one thing on her mind.

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  21. On page 97, Mrs.Phelps is in tears after Montag reads the poem, Mrs. Bowles blames it on the poetry, "Poetry and suicide and crying and awful feelings." Do you think this same outcome would occur if he had read a different type of text?

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    1. I think they would over react to almost any type of text. Mildred has to lie about it saying on page 95, "...every fireman's allowed to bring one book from the old days." Because it is illegal to have books, the ladies would over react to anything Montag had read.

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  22. To the class, Why are the people in this society not as scared of death as we are in our society? Gloria said, "Killed jumping off buildings, yes, like Gloria's husband last week" (p91).

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    1. I think this is because of the fact that they do not care about anything they have in their life because every person in this society is basically the same. This is why people that have read books or own books are afraid of losing them or will even die over them, these people are different and have more knowledge then every other person in society making them have something unique to live for.

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    2. I think that they are not as scared of death because for them it comes naturally for them. Everyone in their family like dies everyday or something and the fact of burning down the houses is a natural thing for them because they grew up with it so they are more immune to it than we are because we don't live with death every day. People in our family die at certain times and we don't know when those times are it just happens out of the blue.

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    3. I think this is because we don't understand death and how it works/happens. On page 97, Mrs. Bowels says "Why do people want to hurt people?" I think this relates in our society today because we don't understand peoples motives and actions.

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  23. To Sam, I believe a different outcome would occur, because I believe this text really touched her in a way. I don't believe any other text would have the same affect on her.

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  24. p 77 Faber's Theology (Nature of God) is introduced for the first time. Even though he is not religious he sees something in the Bible. "It's as good as I remember" (77) but he feels that God doesn't even recognize his own child. (Jesus is used as a sales gimmick)
    Is religion so lost in this world that not even a Father can recognize his son (Christianity)? Why Is the Bible different then any other book they've read?

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  25. On page 77 Montag says, "You're the only one I knew might help me. To see. To see..." What does he need help seeing?

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    1. I think when he is saying he needs help to see he means that he needs help to find the knowledge that can be gained from books.

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    2. I think Montag doesn't believe the reality of the world and needs the perspective of a civilian to prove what is happening.

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    3. Montag needs help seeing what it is about books that made the woman choose to burn herself up with her books. After the firemen left the woman's house Montag says,"She said some crazy things when we came in the door. 'Play the man,' she said, 'Master Ridley.' Something, something, something" (Bradbury 37). This shows that the old woman's actions have made Montag curious about books because he can't get her and her words out of his head.

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  26. Why is Beatty so nice to Montag about turning in the book? On page 101 right after Montag gives Beatty the book he says, "Welcome back, Montag." Is he nice because he doesn't want Montag to expect him to do something?

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  27. When Montag says, “‘That’s the good part of dying; when you’ve nothing to loose, you run any risk you want’” (Bradbury 81). This quote made me wonder: how Montag go from not reading any of the books he collected to planning to turn against his coworkers and go to war over books so quickly?

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