Monday, March 9, 2015

Fahrenheit 451 fishbowl #4: first hour

Today is our last Fahrenheit 451 fishbowl.  Let's make it a great one!

Here are some all-star posts from last week's discussion to model yours after.  Please  notice that each one is carefully proofread & uses a passage to contextualize each question or to support each comment.  Please use such textual evidence with every single post.

Also, remember to use the "reply" feature beneath individual comments and questions versus creating a generic post that dialogues with a particular question or comment.

Happy posting!

Jake asked, "On page 90 Mrs. Phelps says, "He'll be back next week. The army said so. Quick war. Forty-eight hours they said, and everyone home." What happens in a 48 hour war and what kind of fighting is there in such a quick period of time?"

And Brian D. questioned, "What kind of TV shows is Mildred watching? What Montag describes on the TV screen is a bit disturbing. "Montag saw a number of bodies fly in the air" (90)."

And Bianca inquired, "In this society it seems as if having a child is practically meaningless, and the only point in having one is for the world to go on and reproduce, the quote that sparked my thinking is on page 92, "The world must reproduce, you know, the race must go on...". I didn't understand why they do this? And when did children become a burden?"

Here's another great question from Hunter "On page 106 there is a quote where Montag says "we've stopped in front of my house". Do you think that Beatty planned on burning Montag's house down the whole time he knew Montag had books?"

And a comment from Ryan, "To respond to Brooklyn when he asked "Why did Montag read to those women?" I would say that Montag was pretty much just fed up with how his society was turning out, Montag said, "Damn it! What do you know about Hoag and Noble!" (p93) I believe that Montag is starting to realize just how ignorant all these people really are."

And a great question from Sam M: "On page 97, Mrs.Phelps is in tears after Montag reads the poem, Mrs. Bowles blames it on the poetry, "Poetry and suicide and crying and awful feelings." Do you think this same outcome would occur if he had read a different type of text?"

52 comments:

  1. Why is Montag so fascinated with books?

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    1. I think that he is fascinated with books because he knows what his society has been hiding from him and he understands more, and he has actually taken the time to think for once.

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    2. I think the Montag is fascinated with books because it brings something new to his life. I think the books have also made him think more about what was going on in the world rather than just going around and doing his normal daily tasks.

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  2. Why did Beatty want to die? What was it that made him want to die? "Beatty wanted to die." (116)

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    1. I think Beatty kind of gave up trying to change society. He said "Montag, you idiot, Montag, you damn fool" (112) and it sounded like he was upset that Montag chose to read books and try to get society to change the way he did because it sounded like Beatty knew a better way to change society and since it didn't go down right he was upset since he had read a lot of books in his time.

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  3. On many different occasions the book mentions the mechanical hound. Why do you think that they have replaced regular dogs with the mechanical hounds?

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    1. I think that they replaced the dogs with hounds because they are good hunting dogs, and if they need anything to be tracked, the hounds are the dogs that could do the best job. I think that they used hounds to find the books, and track people that had them so they could burn the books that were found by the hounds.

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    2. The machine is just as mindless as the people, the machanical dog cannot love, it has no concept of love, just like the people.
      "How do you get so empty? He wondered. Who takes it out of you? And that awful flower the other day, the dandelion! It has summed up everything, hadn't it? "What a shame you're not in love with anyone!" And why not?" (41)
      p 73 where Mildred cannot explain the love of her "family"

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    3. Dogs can fail and they can get distracted and they take a lot of training and effort for them to become police dogs and "-Mechanical Hound never fails." (126)

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    4. Dogs are known for being smart, so I think they have mechanical hounds so they only think one way and are programmed to all do the same things.

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    5. Dogs are known for being smart, so I think they have mechanical hounds so they only think one way and are programmed to all do the same things.

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  4. On page 135, Montag is talking about how there is no one around him and how its so great to be free, What do you think it was like for montag to finally be alone and have no one around to judge him?

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    1. I think that he felt this weight lifted off of his shoulders, and he could actually think about something he wanted to think about. (134) He starts thinking about the moon and the sun and how the sun burns time.

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  5. Montag has clearly changed dramatically throughout the book, "'There's Beatty dead, and he was my friend once, and there's Millie gone, I thought she was my wife, but now I don't know. And the house all burnt. And my job gone and myself on the run, and I planted a book in a fireman's house on my way. Good Christ, the things I've done in a single week!'" (Bradbury 124-125). Do you think that Montag's changing for better or for worse? What about Faber?

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    1. I think that Montag's life is changing for the better he just doesn't realize it yet. It seems like Faber's isn't really changing for the better or worse

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    2. I think that he is better now and has more knowledge but now he lost his wife and friends and house so it seems like his life has gotten worse. "Im not thinking. Im just doing like im told, like always."

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    3. I feel that it's almost a mixture of the two. He's doing bad things, but he's doing it for the right reason. He just killed someone, and planted books on another, those two things aren't that good. But he did those things for the future of people to read.

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    4. I think he's changing for the better, sometimes people who go through hard things realize what they're capable of and I also think he'll go onto find a better new society and have freedom but I don't think he'll ever forget his wife or Beatty.

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  6. This is a little bit of a flashback but I really didn't understand this piece of the book.
    When Montag was on the subway, he started screaming about lilies, Why lilies?
    What's the importance of lilies?
    p73-76

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  7. I think Beatty wanted to die because he was taunting Montag on, "Go ahead now, you second-hand literateur, pull the trigger" I think that this shows that Beatty wanted him to do it so he could be free and not have to worry about all of the no book stuff.

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  8. On the class syllabus I saw a question that asked "Does Montag feel remorse for Beatty’s death?" After seeing this question, I looked back at the text and saw a quote on page 116 "In the middle of the crying Montag knew it for the truth. Beatty had wanted to die. He had just stood there..." I think this quote shows that Montag has remorse about his actions but he also still thinks that he shouldn't dwell over Beatty's death due to the way he acted before Montag killed him.

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  9. When Montag is on the run and he stops at fabers house they had a conversation and faber said "You did what you had to do it was coming for a long time" #125. When faber says this do you think he was saying it just to comfort Montag after he committed murder, or do you think he is saying this because he really believes that Montag did what he had to do?

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    1. It might have been a little bit of both because Faber is against burning books and that might be why he would comfort him to help get his mind straight to be in the best condition.

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    2. I think that Faber says that to try and get Montag to move on from killing Beatty. "You did what you had to do. It was coming on for a long time." (125)

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    3. I don't think that Faber was saying that it was ok to kill people. I think he was referring to trying and make society see that books are good and that they shouldn't be banned. Faber said "I feel I'm doing what I should've done a lifetime ago." (125) I think he was referring to that he should have stood up to society years ago and try to get rid of their society and the way they think.

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    4. I think with all that Montag was learning and seeing I think he did do what he had to do. He also had to kill Beatty because he wanted to keep Fabel safe. "he heard your voice, he was going to trace it." (124) fable had risked his life for him and he wanted to give back.

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    5. I think he is trying to comfort him and try to get Montag to move on and forget about it.

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  10. As a prediction, do you guys think Montag is going to become a drifting scholor like the people Faber had mentioned or will he just go into hiding and try to erase this event from his past? "There's lots of old Harvard degrees walking those tracks between here as Los Angeles" (126)

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    1. I think that Montag will try to talk to people who are interested in books once his life settles down. Due to the way Montag has shown his love for books, I find it hard to not see him proactively helping people who want to read.

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    2. I think that Montag will continue to spread his knowledge about books. When Montag goes to Faber's house after murdering Beatty, Faber says, "'I feel I’m doing what I should’ve done a lifetime ago’” (Bradbury 125). I think this quote is significant because Montag knows that Faber regrets not doing anything and living in fear, so Montag won't make the same mistake as Faber.

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    3. Yes, I think he will work to become a scholar because throughout the book we see Montag trying to learn books and understand the truth. I think that if given the change to learn and understand he will take that chance. " Guard your health. If anything should happen to Harris. You are the Book of Ecclesiastes."

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  11. I think that Faber doesn't really care about what happened to Beatty as long as Montag was safe, "at least you were a fool about the right things" (124)

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  12. In response to Mara's question, on page 135 the book says, "So much silence, Millie, I wonder how you'd take it?...And he was sad." This quote shows that Montag misses his wife and wants her to be their with him.

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  13. Do you think that the "very young and beautiful woman" in the farmhouse is Clarisse and that her and her family just ran away like Montag is right now, and that they government just said that she died so no body would ask questions about where she went? (Bottom of 125- middle of 126)

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    1. Clarisse seems pretty smart and she is capable of faking her death so the government wouldn't go after her. 'I think the "very young and beautiful woman" was Clarisse but Montag just doesn't recognize her.

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    2. I think this is entirely possible because the government tries to provide answers to as much as possible because the more they answer, the less room there will be for the citizens to think.

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  14. I think the hound symbolises that technology can be dangerous. It also shows fear because when he is in the forest he is paranoid and he thinks even in the woods it can find him."Montag held his breath, like a doubled fist, in his chest. The Mechanical Hound turned and plunged away..."(131)

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  15. Did Beatty know that he was going to be killed by Montag when he took him to his own house?

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    1. I think that Beatty probably knew what might happen and for him to not think that Montag would fight back is foolish.

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    2. I don't think that Beatty knew that he was going to be killed, but I think he expected something to happen because he was egging him on the whole time they were at Montag's house.

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    3. Maybe he suspected it but didn't think it was going to happen because they were friends for a while

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    4. I think that he was pushing Montag to kill him by telling him to do it. He made Montag mad, and practically forced him to do what he did. "Beatty frinned his most charming grin, 'Well, that's one way to get an audience. Hold a gun on a man and force him to listen to your speech.'" (113)

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    5. I think he knew something unusual was going to happen but I don't think he was expecting death to happen.

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    6. I feel that he probably wasn't expecting Montag to kill him, but at the same time he was expecting something to happen because he was egging him on. Beatty was in a sense kicking him while he was down on his luck and when he lost everything.

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  16. Ryan From the Middle asked about Beatty's relationship with the christian faith, (Beatty referenced walking on water) Ryan also stated that he himself is not super familiar with the Bible or Christian practices but yet he still knew that Jesus walked on water (Matthew 14:22-36; Mark 6:45-56; John 6:16-21) and understood the reference.
    I think Beatty may have been the same way, he knew the teachings but not the word.
    Jesus was in the "'parlors' ... Christ is one of the 'family' now" (77)
    Christ was common knowledge, he was "a regular peppermint stick now" (77).
    Because he is common knowledge I am beginning to wonder if Fahrenheit 451 is a reflection of Ray Bradburry's thanatology (the study of the afterlife) or theology (study of God) because Revelation speaks about the end of the world, maybe this dystopia is actually life without faith, after the rapture.

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  17. I believe Beatty wantede to die not only because of the textual evidence on 116 "[He] wanted to die. He just stood there", but because of the way he was able to get under Montag's skin even when he had the so-called "gun up to his head" (113). If he didn't want to die, he wouldn't have egged Montag on with the way he did. The reasoning behind why he wanted to die remains a mystery, but I believe there is very little worth living for in this society. That's the only reason he was so willing to go.

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  18. I agree with Jordan, if Beatty didn't want to die then he would have tried to get away from Montag, he would have done something, he wouldn't have kept talking to get under Montag's skin.

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  19. When Faber says, "'I feel I’m doing what I should’ve done a lifetime ago’” (Bradbury 125) it made me wonder about actions Faber could have made earlier in his life to defend books. Do you think that Faber should have done something to defend books earlier in his life?

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    1. I think that maybe he wishes he could, but I think that he was scared because if you have books your entire house goes down, I don't think that there was much that he could do to defend books.

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    2. I agree with Emily about the fact that Faber was scared but I also wonder if he knew about the knowledge of books for his whole life or if he only recently discovered books.

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  20. The society that Montag lives in isn't going to change and is on the verge of collapse. The reason I say this is because the ratio of educated people with the ability of free will and free thinking is dangerously outnumbered by the vegitables that sit in front of the TV all day and rot. The Goverment ruling the people is doing just fine, but this country could easily be taken over based soley on the fact that the the people are so out of tune with life in general that anyone could sweep in and take the goverments place.

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  21. Beatty's last words were "Hand it over guy" (119) Why do you think that was the last thing he wanted to say?

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